Curse

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 27, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Hi, my guild's finally decided to reform and we're trying to decide on/test a few things while climbing the ladder. We've generally agreed to run eviscerate, dev hammer, mesmer, mesmer, cripshot, rc, woh, flagger on warrior's isle.

Basically, we're undecided on:

Mesmers
ESurge x2
ESurge + Glyph Energy

Flagger
Water ele/woh+hp
ESurge flagger
Monk flagger (shudder)

Most are in favour of running esurge+glyph energy and the water ele flagger, but I'd like some opinions.

Ty

EDIT: non-rt flagger, btw.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 27, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

You will need party healing on the flagger if you run 2 mes and a ranger on your midline, so your options are E/Mo or Mo/E with WoH + HP, the E/Mo will be able to pump out more HPs and will also be better in an 8v8 fight, however he's much more fragile in skirmish situations, that's a call you will have to make.

I'd run dual surge mesmers if you want to run 2 mesmers, Glyph energy + gale is only useful imo if you have a lot of (physical) pressure or a highly mobile build, neither of which is the case in the party setup your guild seems to prefer.

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 27, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Thanks Mitch, I think the E/Mo should be fine for the time being since there aren't really that many good guilds outside of the top300. Also, yeah, two ESurge is probably the best way to go. Just kinda worried about a lack of defence at the stand, but I guess blurred/snares when flags are comming in should be ok.

JR · Jan 27, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Mesmers in this meta are quite interrupt heavy. Power Drain is the best energy management available, and Power Leak is very powerful. As such I would re-think having the ranger unless you want to do a more dedicated split. You don't really need the ranger interrupts at the stand.

If you want to go more down the 8v8 pressure path I would probably suggest an E/D Mind Blast ele with Blinding Flash and Gale for a bit more defense and movement control. Having a ward on one of the Mesmers goes without saying.

I personally quite like the split option of only because it allows you to more easily deal with sineptitude.

I got bored, so I threw it together in GWFreaks. Maxed out your movement control and split durability.

MH Splitadin
Warrior/Monk

Swordsmanship: 13 (12+1)
Tactics: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 3

Frenzy (Warrior other)
Sprint (Strength)
Crippling Slash [Elite] (Swordsmanship)
Gash (Swordsmanship)
Savage Slash (Swordsmanship)
Mending Touch (Protection Prayers)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Disciplined Stance (Tactics)

Cripshot
Ranger/Monk

Expertise: 14 (12+2)
Marksmanship: 10 (9+1)
Wilderness Survival: 10 (9+1)
Protection Prayers: 3

Savage Shot (Marksmanship)
Distracting Shot (Expertise)
Crippling Shot [Elite] (Marksmanship)
Apply Poison (Wilderness Survival)
Natural Stride (Wilderness Survival)
Troll Unguent (Wilderness Survival)
Mending Touch (Protection Prayers)
Resurrection Signet ( )

I tank sins pst
Monk/Elementalist

Healing Prayers: 13 (12+1)
Protection Prayers: 14 (12+2)
Air Magic: 3

Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Shield of Regeneration [Elite] (Protection Prayers)
Shielding Hands (Protection Prayers)
Cure Hex (Healing Prayers)
Mending Touch (Protection Prayers)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (Energy Storage)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Storm Djinn's Haste (Air Magic)

Devpact Signet
Warrior/Ritualist

Strength: 13 (12+1)
Hammer Mastery: 14 (12+2)

Frenzy (Warrior other)
Rush (Strength)
Bull's Strike (Strength)
Enraging Charge (Strength)
Devastating Hammer [Elite] (Hammer Mastery)
Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
Hammer Bash (Hammer Mastery)
Death Pact Signet (Ritualist None)

Surge_Gale
Mesmer/Elementalist

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10 (9+1)
Domination Magic: 14 (12+2)
Air Magic: 5

Energy Surge [Elite] (Domination Magic)
Energy Burn (Domination Magic)
Diversion (Domination Magic)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Shatter Enchantment (Domination Magic)
Gale (Air Magic)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (Energy Storage)
Resurrection Signet ( )

Surge_Ward
Mesmer/Elementalist

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 14 (12+2)
Earth Magic: 7

Energy Surge [Elite] (Domination Magic)
Energy Burn (Domination Magic)
Shame (Domination Magic)
Diversion (Domination Magic)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (Energy Storage)
Ward Against Melee (Earth Magic)
Resurrection Signet ( )

Grimmer
Monk/Assassin

Divine Favor: 11 (10+1)
Healing Prayers: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 8 (7+1)
Shadow Arts: 4

Glimmer of Light [Elite] (Healing Prayers)
Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Guardian (Protection Prayers)
Cure Hex (Healing Prayers)
Dismiss Condition (Protection Prayers)
Dark Escape (Shadow Arts)
Return (Shadow Arts)

Restore
Monk/Assassin

Divine Favor: 13 (11+2)
Healing Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Protection Prayers: 11 (10+1)
Shadow Arts: 4

Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Spirit Bond (Protection Prayers)
Restore Condition [Elite] (Protection Prayers)
Mending Touch (Protection Prayers)
Gift of Health (Healing Prayers)
Holy Veil (Monk other)
Dark Escape (Shadow Arts)
Return (Shadow Arts)

Quote:

Originally Posted by guild deputy

gl climbing the ladder with sineptitude and heroways all around

Please keep irrelevant crap out of this thread.

xhappy feetx · Jan 27, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I'd run dual surge mesmers if you want to run 2 mesmers,

^^.............

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 27, 2008, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Mesmers in this meta are quite interrupt heavy. Power Drain is the best energy management available, and Power Leak is very powerful. As such I would re-think having the ranger unless you want to do a more dedicated split. You don't really need the ranger interrupts at the stand.

The ranger allows for some movement control (and skirmishes) as well as adding more pressure via poison spam, with dual surge mesmer this could create quite some pressure on the opponent's monks.

Quote:

If you want to go more down the 8v8 pressure path I would probably suggest an E/D Mind Blast ele with Blinding Flash and Gale for a bit more defense and movement control. Having a ward on one of the Mesmers goes without saying.

I disagree, the ele is more of a gank char/backup flagger, A single fire ele isn't going to accomplish much in an 8v8 situation as he will get his attunement stripped and get a few pleaks and he's basically shut down completely.

MH Splitadin
Warrior/Monk
Sprint (Strength)
Crippling Slash [Elite] (Swordsmanship)
Savage Slash (Swordsmanship)
Mending Touch (Protection Prayers)

I tank sins pst
Monk/Elementalist
Healing Prayers: 13 (12+1)
Protection Prayers: 14 (12+2)
Air Magic: 3
Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Shield of Regeneration [Elite] (Protection Prayers)
Shielding Hands (Protection Prayers)
Cure Hex (Healing Prayers)
Mending Touch (Protection Prayers)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (Energy Storage)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Storm Djinn's Haste (Air Magic)

Surge_Gale
Mesmer/Elementalist
Energy Surge [Elite] (Domination Magic)
Energy Burn (Domination Magic)
Diversion (Domination Magic)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Shatter Enchantment (Domination Magic)
Gale (Air Magic)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (Energy Storage)
Resurrection Signet ( )

Surge_Ward
Mesmer/Elementalist

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 14 (12+2)
Earth Magic: 7

Energy Surge [Elite] (Domination Magic)
Energy Burn (Domination Magic)
Shame (Domination Magic)
Diversion (Domination Magic)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (Energy Storage)
Ward Against Melee (Earth Magic)
Resurrection Signet ( )

Grimmer
Monk/Assassin

Divine Favor: 11 (10+1)
Healing Prayers: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 8 (7+1)
Shadow Arts: 4

Glimmer of Light [Elite] (Healing Prayers)
Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Guardian (Protection Prayers)
Cure Hex (Healing Prayers)
Dismiss Condition (Protection Prayers)
Dark Escape (Shadow Arts)
Return (Shadow Arts)

Restore
Monk/Assassin

Divine Favor: 13 (11+2)
Healing Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Protection Prayers: 11 (10+1)
Shadow Arts: 4

Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Spirit Bond (Protection Prayers)
Restore Condition [Elite] (Protection Prayers)
Mending Touch (Protection Prayers)
Gift of Health (Healing Prayers)
Holy Veil (Monk other)
Dark Escape (Shadow Arts)
Return (Shadow Arts)[/QUOTE]

That build is not only bad, it's also horribly outdated.

WoH > Glimmer
No Pleak on the mesmers?
Cripslash and Cripshot what's the point?
SoR Monk? Seriously?

It's cool that you returned to the game JR, but you might want to get accustomed to the current meta before you start giving build advice..

JR · Jan 28, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

It's cool that you returned to the game JR, but you might want to get accustomed to the current meta before you start giving build advice..

The meta of people playing the same tired balanced and crying about losing to sineptitude? Excuse me for flexing a bit of originality.

The SoR runner allows you to actually hold up against multiple sins. SoR and Shands destroy the damage which comes in multiple small packets. This means you can actually defend your base against virtually anything, push a flag easily, or split very aggressively.

Monk bars are virtually pointless to put in a build. I simply did it for the sake of completeness and to indicate that personally I would rather go Mo/A. Glimmer over WoH is a build choice that I think works in this situation. I've had my WoH pleaked often enough already, and Glimmer is hardly a BAD skill. Shorter cast times are more valuable in split situations where positioning is ness of a factor.

What is wrong with two sources of Cripple on a split? It's very hard to be overkill when movement control and snares are so ridiculously powerful in skirmishes.

Accepting that the Ranger will be splitting most of the time then yes, you could take Power Leak if you wanted. I think two Power Drains (and possibly the Ranger) is a decent number of interrupts already, but you could put in another.

I really don't see the justifications behind any of your objections other than 'it's not what people run now'.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 28, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

The meta of people playing the same tired balanced and crying about losing to sineptitude? Excuse me for flexing a bit of originality.

Sure the meta is stale, doesn't mean you can get away running extremely outdated builds though.

Quote:

The SoR runner allows you to actually hold up against multiple sins. SoR and Shands destroy the damage which comes in multiple small packets. This means you can actually defend your base against virtually anything, push a flag easily, or split very aggressively.

Meanwhile you have your only source of party healing on the flagger that can be kept in the base by a single ranger or warrior, as well as it not having a block skill to protect HP, and bad energy in general due to having 2 15e skills, a speed boost that eats energy like crazy and it relies on SoR + RoF spam to make red bars go up.

Quote:

Monk bars are virtually pointless to put in a build. I simply did it for the sake of completeness and to indicate that personally I would rather go Mo/A. Glimmer over WoH is a build choice that I think works in this situation. I've had my WoH pleaked often enough already, and Glimmer is hardly a BAD skill. Shorter cast times are more valuable in split situations where positioning is ness of a factor.

Glimmer isnt a bad skill, WoH is simply better, besides you still have Heal Other, Dismiss, Guardian and Cure Hex on the bar so it's not like you won't be Pleaked as it is.. (btw Heal Other is shit)

Quote:

What is wrong with two sources of Cripple on a split? It's very hard to be overkill when movement control and snares are so ridiculously powerful in skirmishes.

On a split not that much, though instead of being redundant you could bring something more useful, the problem I have with cripslash, is that it's a steaming pile of shit. It used to be decent at 4 adren when cripshot was still 15e and most people didn't run RC.

Now it's shit at the stand and on the split you're not really going to accomplish anything either cause you lack KDs which are what get kills on a split.

Quote:

Accepting that the Ranger will be splitting most of the time then yes, you could take Power Leak if you wanted. I think two Power Drains (and possibly the Ranger) is a decent number of interrupts already, but you could put in another.

Running a build like this you should enforce 8v8 fights as much as possible as that's where the strength of dual dom mesmer builds lies, not bringing PLeak on a dom mesmer is like not running Bull's Strike on a warrior (you don't not bring it on a hammer warrior cause you already have 2 KDs either do you?)

Denying a monk 19 energy + interrupting a spell is one of the best effects you're gonna get out of a non-elite (heck, even most elites aren't that powerful).

Quote:

I really don't see the justifications behind any of your objections other than 'it's not what people run now'.

It's shit.

JR · Jan 28, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Sure the meta is stale, doesn't mean you can get away running extremely outdated builds though.

Something that's been tried and proven in a different meta isn't a bad choice for trying during a stale meta that needs to change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Meanwhile you have your only source of party healing on the flagger that can be kept in the base by a single ranger or warrior, as well as it not having a block skill to protect HP, and bad energy in general due to having 2 15e skills, a speed boost that eats energy like crazy and it relies on SoR + RoF spam to make red bars go up.

If you are keeping the SoR runner back to deal with one character then you really need to learn how to split. You have a Warrior and Ranger in your build who are perfectly capable of dealing with one to two characters each. If the opposing team is splitting enough to force your SoR monk into your base then you really aren't going to need the party healing anyway.

It's not like he is going to be using SoR and Heal Party at any one time, they are for completely different situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Glimmer isnt a bad skill, WoH is simply better, besides you still have Heal Other, Dismiss, Guardian and Cure Hex on the bar so it's not like you won't be Pleaked as it is.. (btw Heal Other is shit)

The likelyhood of being interrupted is far less when your spam skill is a 1/4 and not a 3/4. How much have you played with Glimmer? How much have you tested what works best on the bar? Like I said; Monk bars are mostly up to preference, but I think people underrate Glimmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

On a split not that much, though instead of being redundant you could bring something more useful, the problem I have with cripslash, is that it's a steaming pile of shit. It used to be decent at 4 adren when cripshot was still 15e and most people didn't run RC.

Now it's shit at the stand and on the split you're not really going to accomplish anything either cause you lack KDs which are what get kills on a split.

It's a choice, and you clearly don't understand the goal of the split. If you change to a bar with stronger ability to kill then you lose durability. This means you are infact less of a threat in their base because you can't crack the boat or deal with anything they send back. You also can't defend your own base quite as easily without healing support.

RC really shouldn't be an issue, because there are very few situations where you wont be split.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Running a build like this you should enforce 8v8 fights as much as possible as that's where the strength of dual dom mesmer builds lies,

I don't think Dual Dom with a Ranger at the stand is defensive enough to hold up in this meta. With split you can at least rely on getting power plays and movement to make your life easier.

Water Ele instead of the Ranger and maybe. Paragon sure. Maybe even a rit? They sound like good components that would make this work as an 8v8 build, but not a ranger. It's overkill on interrupts and all it really has going for it is condition spreading in a meta where everyone has RC at the stand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

not bringing PLeak on a dom mesmer is like not running Bull's Strike on a warrior (you don't not bring it on a hammer warrior cause you already have 2 KDs either do you?)

Denying a monk 19 energy + interrupting a spell is one of the best effects you're gonna get out of a non-elite (heck, even most elites aren't that powerful).

Sure. I personally think that Power Drain is the more valuable interrupt on a bar that is tight enough to merit having one. Maybe that's not the right choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

It's shit.

Your attitude of judging every build by a ridiculously strict set of rules and guidelines that it must conform to in order not to be 'shit' is exactly why people are losing to sineptitude.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 28, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Something that's been tried and proven in a different meta isn't a bad choice for trying during a stale meta that needs to change.

Or how about running a build that has been tried and proven in THIS meta, stale as it might be it will increase your chances of winning by quite a bit.

Quote:

If you are keeping the SoR runner back to deal with one character then you really need to learn how to split. You have a Warrior and Ranger in your build who are perfectly capable of dealing with one to two characters each. If the opposing team is splitting enough to force your SoR monk into your base then you really aren't going to need the party healing anyway.

A ranger and a warrior are not going to keep NPCs alive though.

Quote:

The likelyhood of being interrupted is far less when your spam skill is a 1/4 and not a 3/4. How much have you played with Glimmer? How much have you tested what works best on the bar? Like I said; Monk bars are mostly up to preference, but I think people underrate Glimmer.

It is however much more likely to get diverted, and a lot more energy intensive, monk bars are up to preference to a certain extent, I challenge you however to run the ones you posted in this meta at top 50-100 level.

Quote:

It's a choice, and you clearly don't understand the goal of the split. If you change to a bar with stronger ability to kill then you lose durability. This means you are infact less of a threat in their base because you can't crack the boat or deal with anything they send back. You also can't defend your own base quite as easily without healing support.

A rit or monk flagger (which are all people run atm) will have little to no problems keeping npcs up against the warrior and the ranger you posted..

Quote:

RC really shouldn't be an issue, because there are very few situations where you wont be split.

Why would you want to run a dual dom build thats gonna split all the time?

Quote:

I don't think Dual Dom with a Ranger at the stand is defensive enough to hold up in this meta. With split you can at least rely on getting power plays and movement to make your life easier.

With a ward and dual Aegis this shouldnt be that much of a problem, the lack of party healing might break you though.

Quote:

Water Ele instead of the Ranger and maybe. Paragon sure. Maybe even a rit? They sound like good components that would make this work as an 8v8 build, but not a ranger. It's overkill on interrupts and all it really has going for it is condition spreading in a meta where everyone has RC at the stand.

Between 2 mesmers and a ranger, it shouldn't be too hard to shut down RC, also the ranger gives movement control, splittability and adds pressure with conditions, a water ele could be decent if you manage to stop every attempt of the enemy trying to split (or maybe powerplay their stand team at the cost of giving up some NPCs) a paragon however would make the build extremely 8v8 focused and any guild that's halfway decent will make short work of you by splitting aggressively.

Quote:

Sure. I personally think that Power Drain is the more valuable interrupt on a bar that is tight enough to merit having one. Maybe that's not the right choice.

Except the bar is nowhere near tight enough to merit 1 interrupt, run PLeak instead of burn or shame on 1 mes and instead of gale on the other one.

Quote:

Your attitude of judging every build by a ridiculously strict set of rules and guidelines that it must conform to in order not to be 'shit' is exactly why people are losing to sineptitude.

It's not my attitude, it's how the game has become, there simply aren;t many viable builds left because izzy nerfed stuff like LoD and for some reason doesn't want to touch stuff like splinter weapon, ancestor's rage and sins. The recent VoD changes only enforce this.

People lose to sineptitude on ladder because it can be hard to deal with with a normal balanced build and in ATs because they for some reason refuse to spec against it.

JR · Jan 28, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Or how about running a build that has been tried and proven in THIS meta, stale as it might be it will increase your chances of winning by quite a bit.

Right! People can only run builds that have been proven to work in the current meta. Please do tell me how the meta is ever supposed to evolve?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

A ranger and a warrior are not going to keep NPCs alive though.

They push the opponents split out. It's not brain surgery mitch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

It is however much more likely to get diverted, and a lot more energy intensive, monk bars are up to preference to a certain extent, I challenge you however to run the ones you posted in this meta at top 50-100 level.

I think you will find that there are quite a few guilds in the top 50 that take Glimmer over WoH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

A rit or monk flagger (which are all people run atm) will have little to no problems keeping npcs up against the warrior and the ranger you posted..

Keep the NPCs in the boat alive - sure. Unless your split is terrible you should easily be able to clear the rest of the base, including Knights. With the SoR Monk present you should even be able to drop the Bodyguard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Why would you want to run a dual dom build thats gonna split all the time?

Given the characters listed I think you can build a more optimal split than you can an 8v8 build. I also gave options for if you wanted to run it more 8v8 oriented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Except the bar is nowhere near tight enough to merit 1 interrupt, run PLeak instead of burn or shame on 1 mes and instead of gale on the other one.

I think Gale is one of the best skills in the game, especially on split, and would certainly not drop it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

People lose to sineptitude on ladder because it can be hard to deal with with a normal balanced build and in ATs because they for some reason refuse to spec against it.

'People lose to sineptitude on ladder because it can be hard to deal with with a normal balanced build and in ATs because it can be hard to deal with with a normal balanced build.'

Fixed.

Akaraxle · Jan 28, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

A ranger and a warrior are not going to keep NPCs alive though.

They push the opponents split out. It's not brain surgery mitch.

You might as well leave them at the base then, because it takes 5 net seconds for a sin to kill an archer. You don't "push" sineptitude split outside the base without a healer: they kill an NPC and you chase them out in vain.

P.S. I had f**ked up the doublequote ololol

Lordhelmos · Jan 28, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Seems interesting enough, we might as well give it a shot JR. I've been with a guild running a balance similar to what rawr has been using for some time. After watching the AT for this month and seeing balanced get stomped, I'm about ready to quit. I'll pass your build along to some guildies and see if they want to try it.

We have nothing really to lose anyway. Half of us are ready to quit after seeing balanced nerfed to crap, and our rank sucks anyway. I'll let you know how it goes. I'm sure there will be more than enough sineptitude and heroway builds around to test this against.

I like your mindset btw. Maybe if more people thought like you, the meta wouldn't suck so much. People should stop thinking like goldfishes in a glass bowl, it makes the game stupid. Recent nerfs made the game stupid actually; but that "stuck in the meta" mindset only reinforces the stupidity.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 28, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Right! People can only run builds that have been proven to work in the current meta. Please do tell me how the meta is ever supposed to evolve?

The meta is pretty much done evolving, until there is a (good) skill balance to shake things up we're stuck with partygons, sineptitude and splinterfarm.

Quote:

They push the opponents split out. It's not brain surgery mitch.

You're gonna lose NPCs if you cannot heal them, even if you do manage to push them out.

Quote:

I think you will find that there are quite a few guilds in the top 50 that take Glimmer over WoH.

I can think of 1 guild in the top 50 that runs glimmer and they run a bar thats pretty similar to the popular WoH bars, not a piece of shit bar with heal other , like the one you posted.

Quote:

Keep the NPCs in the boat alive - sure. Unless your split is terrible you should easily be able to clear the rest of the base, including Knights. With the SoR Monk present you should even be able to drop the Bodyguard.

You'll just get pushed hard at the stand, where you basically have no defense and terrible monk bars.

Quote:

Given the characters listed I think you can build a more optimal split than you can an 8v8 build. I also gave options for if you wanted to run it more 8v8 oriented.

Dual dom is MUCH better 8v8 than in 5/3 or 6/2 split

Quote:

I think Gale is one of the best skills in the game, especially on split, and would certainly not drop it.

You do realise that gale is a 2 second KD now right? You need glyph energy to run a proper gale mesmer nowadays, you'll just exhaust yourself accomplishing little to nothing otherwise.

Quote:

'People lose to sineptitude on ladder because it can be hard to deal with with a normal balanced build and in ATs because it can be hard to deal with with a normal balanced build.'

Fixed.

The difference is that on ladder you want to have a versatile build that will work best in most situations, whereas in an AT when you know what map you're playing on and who your opponent will be you can spec for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

I like your mindset btw. Maybe if more people thought like you, the meta wouldn't suck so much. People should stop thinking like goldfishes in a glass bowl, it makes the game stupid. Recent nerfs made the game stupid actually; but that "stuck in the meta" mindset only reinforces the stupidity.

I'd much prefer being able to run different builds, however I'm realistic about it and realise that it's not possible if you want to be competitive.